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Monday, February 27, 2017

Building a True-scale Space Marine Redux

By the manner of their death we shall know them.

Space Marine anatomy is an odd thing, something that I think is often ignored due to it being behind armor. And while the plastic Space Marine models will always have a place in my heart, they have a lot of problems (leg attachment is ridiculous; they have essentially only a ribcage attached to their hips; arms are attached too high for them to attach to the scapula). The artwork of Kopinski and Dainton were some of the first examples I saw of someone eschewing these things to create something more believable. Having said this, that does not make their artwork perfect, with even the artists themselves shifting style and proportion between different pieces of artwork. The classic Crimson Fist marine Kopkinski drew is a good example, as in much of his later work (like the cover of the Uriel Ventris novel The Killing Ground) he increased the head size such that a humanoid figure could conceivably fit inside the armor. I tried my hand at creating a more anatomically reasonable Space Marine earlier this year in a collaborative progect with Mig’s from Iron Sleet, and was quite pleased with the result. No project is ever perfect, so when I started to consider creating a second Space Marine for FPOA’s Green Mechanicvm, I began thinking of what I would do differently. In this post I wanted to share some pictures of the current status of this Elder One, and talk a little about the challenges in its creation, something that I think is particularly relevant with the recent pictures of the upcoming plastic Roboute Guilliman (who is an anatomical mess).


In these two excellent pieces by Karl Kopinski, you can see an evolution in his understanding of a Space Marine’s anatomy. It is particularly evident in how small the Crimson Fist’s (left) head is, and how this is corrected in the later Ultramarine (right).





With the second marine, I wanted to make the model’s breastplate a little smaller. The first one was converted from a Grey Knight terminator body and the armor from an Adeptus Mechanicus Kataphron Breacher, and a lot of green stuff. I think it ended up being slightly too large in relationship to his legs. For the second one, I still based it around a Grey Knight torso, but used the abdomen from a Tartaros terminator. To fit with this styling, I used Tartaros legs to create the new marine’s legs. With the legs, I wanted to keep them relatively simple, extending them a little and correcting their attachment place. As I continued to work on them, however, with each correction I made, it necessitated another, until they have almost entirely been redone. After the obligatory extension of the shins, the thigh armor looked far too thin, and then after this was modified, the shins did not taper out enough at the end, etc. I admit, now that I am finally satisfied with the proportions of the marine’s legs and body, I think I may have made the model a little too large. He is now just a little shy of one of Forge World’s Primarch models!

I am planning to create a mold to cast the marine to speed up future conversions. I also plan to try and create another set of arms to hold his bolter in two hands.

Like the first marine, much of the upper part of the arms were created with green stuff, with the forearm from a Tartaros terminator. Unmodified terminator arms are simply too short to work well. To make the anatomy work properly, it was important to attach the arms in a reasonable place, and not too high, as is seen on many Space Marines (particularly on terminators). An important aspect of getting this right was extending/sculpting a neck on the chosen head, and not slotting it too deeply into the chest armor. I also decided I needed to increase the size of the model’s shoulderpads. Many people use terminator shoulderpads for their true-scale marines, and I decided to start there. To my surprise, however, when comparing them side by side to the standard power armor pads, they are almost identical in size, with the terminator ones being a more bulbous shape. Because of this, I decided to just use green stuff to build up the normal power armor ones. The process was quite tedious, trying to make sure both remained the same size, including the rims, but I think it worked out in the end.

Although the basic power armor is just about finished, I want to add a lot of additional details to make him fit alongside FPOA’s Green Mechanicvm.

As you can see from this comparison to a Forge World Iron armor marine, this new true-scale marine is huge, possibly a little too big...

At this point, I believe the core of the model is complete. To make him into an Elder One from the Thorn Moons, however, there is a lot of detail work that I want to do. Before continuing with this, however, I decided that I should try my hand at creating a silicone mold of the marine in his current state. The model has taken well over a month to sculpt, doing a little each evening, and the prospect of repeating the process every time I want to create another true-scale marine is enervating. With a cast, I could create resin copies of the model that I can cut up and modify each time I plan on making another marine. I have absolutely no experience in making silicone casts, but got a Smooth-On starter kit with all the necessary components, and have watched a few YouTube videos on the subject. Although it does not seem incredibly hard, the process is still rather intimidating, particularly after laboring so long over the model. If any of you have experience in the matter, any advice would be greatly appreciated! 

-Adam Wier

16 comments:

  1. Looking good. I admire the effort and results - I've tried kit-bashing true-scale marines and thought 'bugger all this work' and mocked up power armour over my digital figures and thought 'this just doesn't work!'. Power armour is quite a headache when you actually start thinking about how it moves and what's inside it.

    I don't agree with your assessment of Roboute, but he'd be worth looking at because he has something your guy is lacking: buttocks...

    On both Seb Perbet's plastic Roboute and Simon Egan's Russ you can see the ridged sections between armour plates are actually fairly form fitting body suits that follows the musculature of the figure and I think that's the key to sculpting workable power armour. Unfortunately, you've really got to work from the inside out - which is what I think Seb Perbet actually has done, almost uniquely in Space Marine sculpting, and that's why his armour is so different to standard (such as the thigh armour). Definitely worth studying, regardless of how you feel about the hyper exaggerated body that is underneath it all.

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    1. Thanks for the constructive criticism! Upon reflection, I think you are right about the armor not extending quite right to accommodate his buttocks. I will have to try to rework it a little. Any suggestions on the matter would be welcome. The process is really difficult, and as you suggested, the most reasonable way to go about making believable power armor would be to start from the inside. I do not think I am quite at that level yet, but I am working on it!

      As for Guilliman, I think Seb has done an admirable job of trying to get the anatomy better. But while succeeding in some areas, I feel in others he falls a little short. It is a little difficult to judge without having the model in hand, but I think his legs are one of the main issues. Most striking is that his thighs/femurs are substantially shorter than his shins/tibia/fibula. The other issue is that his head looks too small in relationship to the rest of the body (I admit, I think my marine’s head is a little to small too), giving the entire model a very “stretched” and alien look, something that is only compounded by the long shins. Egan has done a much better job, in my opinion, of making a more reasonable looking marine. A large part of this is due to making the armor thinner and form fitting like you said. But more importantly, I think the decision to make their heads bigger is key to why they work so well. With the larger heads, it actually looks like a real, albeit extremely muscular, person is inside the armor.

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    2. http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/Khorosho-Productions/spacebutt_zpsduuwol2r.png

      I don't know if that helps at all. The butt would ideally be a wee bit proud of the top of the thigh armour too, so the butt-flap would likely need to be angled a bit. Either way, the traditional shape of Space Marine thigh armour is impossible if they're not constantly squatting so needs lowering at the bum line and front of the crotch.

      Roboute's armour takes this into account but the thighs do appear shortened with more material cut away for movement. Though I agree the sculptor has exaggerated the shin length over the thighs, potentially adding to the issue.

      I think though that Seb Perbet and Simon Egan were working to very different briefs. The plastic figure is very much in keeping with the modern GW style, and I doubt 'reasonable' was ever even considered regarding his proportions! Roboute, Slaughter Priests, Karic Acolytes etc all share an exaggerated style, but Simon Egan has never worked to such a brief - even his Imperial Guard ignore the GW house style. The better for it perhaps, but it's not a direct comparison. However, for what you're aiming for, Egan's primarchs are definitely a better match.

      It's the thought put into the armour on plastic Roboute that's I find particularly interesting though. For me, it trumps the Forgeworld primarchs. I doubt Russ could run like that without slamming his thigh armour into his hips and ass, but maybe, just maybe, Roboute could.

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    3. Thank you for the image, it has been helpful. I am in the process of re-sculpting his buttocks to look more like what Seb has done with Guilliman. I am also slightly modifying the thigh armor around his rear to allow for increased movement.

      Interesting point about both Seb Perbet and Simon Egan working to different briefs. That would certainly make a lot of sense. You are certainly right about Simon Egan, most of his models are proportioned much differently than standard GW models (this is particularly evident in his Death Korp and Elysian Imperial Guard as you mentioned).

      I am anxious to get a closer look at Seb Perbet's model of Gulliman. There is certainly a lot to consider when trying to create workable power armor. It is always nice to see new interpretations.

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  2. Good work on the truescale :) Very impressive from a sculpting perspective, although I feel that the shoulderplates are too small. He also seems a bit...lanky. I've always had this picture of space marines being hulking beasts, almost as broad as they are tall. I also can't really say that I particularly like the bolter (I asume now that it is one), since it is so far removed from the commonplace bolter visually. Then again, I suppose you went with something more realistic in approach, which is something I do not really care much about, since the unrealistically proportioned marines and the stock-less bolters have become, to me that is, very iconic of the Space Marine. Still, I can appreciate the thought behind the figure and it is amazingly sculpted!
    What you would want to do as a casting prep work, is have the figure in as many components as possible, considering just how many undercuts there are and since you, I asume, want to make a wider variety of posing in the end. Hope that helps :)

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    1. Thanks for the input on the marine. The process has been a slow one, making parts bulker, only to having to increase the size other other parts to compensate. This process has resulted in the model being bigger than I intended. I think he is currently a little taller than what I would envision most Space Marines, which contributes to the lankiness. Also, his head is probably a little small too, accentuating the effect. I feel if I would make another, I would try to address this more, and could probably do it with a cast of this model if it works out. Currently, his arms, shoulderpads, backpack, and head are all removable, to help in the casting process.

      As for the bolter, it not meant to be a standard bolter, but a master-crafted one with a needler attached (combi-weapon), since he will eventually be made into a techmarine of sorts. Having said this, it is essentially just one of the plastic 2nd edition bolters, with an extended barrel and a fixed stock replacing the skeleton one that the model had originally. The longer barrel really does change the look, however. What amazes me is how big the gun looks on the model, making it even clearer how ridiculously oversized they are for the stock plastic marines.

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  3. This guy has really come a long way Adam! As far as criticisms my only one would be of height, he is a little taller but not all Astartes are the same size. From strictly an anatomical point of view I think you have out done yourself. I do not expect many people to agree with me as we all have different opinions with possible decades of misconceptions ingrained in them. With that said...looking at a normal humans proportions (Real humans not the wild variations of different companies human miniatures) adding on a REALISTIC amount of muscle I think you've nailed it. For what its worth I think your marines butt looks realistically sized, then again I also cannot say a single positive thing about the new Guilliman model so who's to say ;)

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    1. Thank you for the kind words! I think you are right that everyone sort of has their own ideas what a marine should look like, based on the artwork, miniatures, and background. Whenever I get around to making another true scale marine I am going to take special care to watch his height and overall size. There are so many aspects and details to consider it is hard to get everything right...

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  4. Quite good work for #2, and it makes me eager to see what #3 will look like! The putty work seems very smooth, and that cog decoration is excellent, and appropriately understated for a larger figure. Although looking at that neck, talk about a shot trap... Your bolter is great, but of course you have more than doubled its length with the stock and barrel extensions!

    For my own bitz bashing work, I find it useful to have a "standard" human to compare to, as otherwise you end up being very large very quickly. (particularly when adding in the missing midsection that GW seems to love to leave out).

    I have some experience from a few years back with the smooth-on starter kit, and I would say that the main problem with it is that the included resin goes off very quickly (by design), which means that for small pieces you have to pour quickly and remove bubbles quickly. (and I used disposable plastic cups for mixing part A and B, and part B I think eats through the plastic, so you will have to toss that one after one use). The omoo rubber is excellent through. Were I to do more resin casting, I would keep using the omoo, but switch to a slightly slower resin.

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    1. I am glad you like the model! The neck is certainly a little exposed; I might try to modify it a little to remedy this. The stock and barrel certainly do add to the bolter’s size, but even at its core (without those additions) it is huge.

      Thanks for the insight into the casting, I will certainly let everyone know how the casting ultimately goes!

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  5. You have totally out done yourself!

    Great detail, anatomy and proportion. Clever use of bits and pieces, the prefect balance between a kitbash and sculpting. The gun splice is simply awesome and the head and pose give him an aura of stoic personality. Just how I would imagine the Adeptus Astartes!

    Can't wait to see the Elder One completed!
    Green Man Cometh- From Throne To Thorne.....

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    1. Good to know I have captured the essence of an Astartes, that was certainly what I was going for. I cannot wait to finally finish the basic marine part and move onto the detailing to transition him to being an Elder One.

      From Throne To Thorne!

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  6. I'm very impressed with your sculpting and your attention to details on both of your true scale marines. It's a real shame that the artists that sculpted the first generations of space marines didn't put as much thought into anatomy as you have.

    I happen to have quite a bit of experience making my own molds and casting miniatures. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have and help any way I can. Feel free to contact me anytime.

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    1. Thank you for the comment. I would love it if GamesWorkshop would go back and try and rework the basic Space Marine models.

      I am soon at the point where I am going to be trying to make a mold of the model. I will likely send you an e-mail with questions when I actually start. Thank you!

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  7. It's Shawna! I just found your blog and your work is amazing!!!!

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    1. Great to see you have found our blog! I am glad you like it! =^-^=

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