tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post1741019812173191501..comments2024-03-13T17:52:38.248-07:00Comments on Between the Bolter and Me: Female Representation: Concerns with the Necromunda Escher modelsAdam Wierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11710889303035437886noreply@blogger.comBlogger115125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-67852123898776528162023-12-21T21:12:31.874-08:002023-12-21T21:12:31.874-08:00"This imagery does not send the message that ..."This imagery does not send the message that women are welcome in the Warhammer community."<br /><br />GW is never going to capture a new consumer base by appealing to women. But I guess you can moralise and alienate the extant male base!<br /><br />Great work!kamachi k.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-59492538363114317482023-10-22T07:34:00.606-07:002023-10-22T07:34:00.606-07:00No he’s right No he’s right Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-9186018154552315422022-09-20T16:56:00.385-07:002022-09-20T16:56:00.385-07:00They are ugly because they don't look like wom...They are ugly because they don't look like women. They look like dudes with tits. A trend of how men design women in the miniature industry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-50521947980697359092022-06-18T14:23:59.539-07:002022-06-18T14:23:59.539-07:00Holy shit you're a fucking loser dudeHoly shit you're a fucking loser dude Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-10451020614802369832021-07-29T19:00:27.056-07:002021-07-29T19:00:27.056-07:00That's an amazing piece of lore that I didn...That's an amazing piece of lore that I didn't knew about!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-42855260730925019872020-12-16T10:03:13.346-08:002020-12-16T10:03:13.346-08:00This doesn't change the fact that the male aud...This doesn't change the fact that the male audience which is mostly composed of noodlearmed nerds and fat neckbeards isn't represented by the models.<br />How many WH40k fans do you know that you'd classify as "strong and powerful"?<br />Escher miniatures still look strong and powerful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-85778448132906732072020-12-16T09:44:27.573-08:002020-12-16T09:44:27.573-08:00I don't think it makes sense, since when you l...I don't think it makes sense, since when you look at stuff marketed to women - fashion, dolls, women's shows, you'll see lots of similar stuff to what is criticized in this blog.<br />Like to the point where it's next-to-impossible to find non-degenerate women.<br /><br />Baldur's Gate 2 had female character portraits literally traced from female pornstars and we have tons of women in Baldur's Gate 2 modding community.<br /><br />What about mangas with tons of female sexualized characters where you have massive female audience?<br />I don't think women shun these games because of degeneracy.<br /><br />One thing that is interesting about experiments with innate interest in toys by toddlers is that both and male and female toddlers displayed significant interest in dolls, but female toddlers displayed much lower interest in vehicle toys.<br /><br />I think that wargames and boardgames are generally sort of boring. Like when I was in boardgame club in a local sci-fi club, women would attend the fantasy and roleplaying club in drowes but there was like 1 per 10 guys in boardgame club when it was with the same guys as the fantasy and roleplaying club.<br /><br />Like, why would clothes CONSISTENT WITH FEMININE SOCIALISATION scare away women from the hobby?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-3548338741091555242020-12-16T09:12:05.493-08:002020-12-16T09:12:05.493-08:00Whatever female friends think is irrelevant unless...Whatever female friends think is irrelevant unless they are military or into combat sports and can offer their experiences on what is practical for warrior women to wear in combat.<br />Also, it's not like 1/3 of women isn't prancing around in sexualized clothes in public as soon as they won't freeze, so why would female friends have different opinion on sexualized models than the rest of degenerates?<br /><br />Though to be honest I don't know what's even the point of playing around with "fixing" 40k instead of trying to create something new that would be similar in atmosphere but more realistic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-13581434273847408532020-07-14T11:46:37.096-07:002020-07-14T11:46:37.096-07:00The heels are actually incredibly important to Esc...The heels are actually incredibly important to Escher women. Theirs is a culture of flamboyancy and establishing dominance through superiority by exuberance. They see what the nobles of the spires wear and they turn them into their own broken reflection in an overly sexualized and satirical parody that states with a mere flick of their mohawks that they are better than you. They are faster, smarter, and more skilled than any of you. Taking away the heels from an Escher is like taking a lasgun from a Cadian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-30525835855217562472020-04-16T00:24:51.611-07:002020-04-16T00:24:51.611-07:00I am a woma, fairly young ( 29) and I don’t like m...I am a woma, fairly young ( 29) and I don’t like most games workshop female models. Daughters of Haine have horrible art. They look very androgynous to me in the pictures. I have no problem with boob plated armor or high heels. I think it should depend on the class of a model. Stormcast externals warriors full armor makes sense. Magicians not so much. I like to have at least some really sexy females in my armies. It’s also not unrealistic. I maintain my body through hard work. Why not show it off in a normal way. I don’t think leggings and a sports bra are overly sexually. On the magazine covers of the world young girls only see very thin boyish girls and women. I always felt that a men’s magazine was a better lecture for a young woman than a Woman’s magazine. I personally like miniatures with bigger boobs, big butt and tiny waist that are looking fit. I see myself in them. I love raging heroes for that. We have perfect chiseled male figures because they are supposed to be an imaginary ideal. Are guys offended by that? Maulfaulem has a perfect balance between pretty but practical dressed models I think. I really miss that in GW. But I get it everyone today is constantly afraid to offend someone. Stop being offended by things like this.Nataleia90https://www.blogger.com/profile/10682751568456422325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-34742499620928943522020-04-06T08:53:59.909-07:002020-04-06T08:53:59.909-07:00Why the hell should women feel welcome in the hobb...Why the hell should women feel welcome in the hobby? Why the hell should anyone feel welcome in the hobby? There are already WAY too many people who are into it, way too many children, way too many pathetic "cool dads" with a receding hairline, way too many videogame-obsessed virgins, way too many idiots who believe in politics and that 40k is the best platform for it, way too many fat smelly chicks with creepy sex fetishes, way too many fat smelly neckbeards with creepy sex fetishes, way too many mentally disabled weirdos, way too many people who weren't bullied hard enough. Aggressive gatekeeping is a matter of public hygiene and common decency at this point. More toxicity towards outsiders (and insiders for that matter) means a healthier community. In a way I'm glad this blog post is doing its part by being inflammatory and autistic in its own misguided self-defeating way. If our toy soldiers make people feel uncomfortable and offended, GOOD, that's the point of the grim darkness of the far future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-7082734471041510912020-02-11T11:38:39.305-08:002020-02-11T11:38:39.305-08:00It is clear you did not actually read this article...It is clear you did not actually read this article. It is also clear you are not familiar with our work. If this is how you spend your time, making superficial arguments against something you don't agree with, that is sad. Adam Wierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11710889303035437886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-3192271012942990722020-02-11T11:14:10.039-08:002020-02-11T11:14:10.039-08:00What representation do you want in a war torn grim...What representation do you want in a war torn grimdark universe? Some fat obese women, I bet that'd be a fun representation. The male models are all muscles etc... because this is fantasy.<br /><br />If you want representation, look elsewhere, not everything is made for everyone. If you look at the minis in power armour etc.. without breasts to signify that they're female, it's near impossible to tell. The women are usually slimmer and have breasts to help convey their gender. Popping a sigmar female head on a space marine body doesn't look good because it doesn't translate well. <br /><br />I don't think it's outlandish to expect female warrior women to be slender. Sure they could tone down the breasts, but that's like saying they should tone down the muscles on the Catachan jungle fighter men etc... it's stupid, you need to be able to identify things at a glance. If you want your own type of representation, create it, conversions have been around forever. This article is sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-21887378028666675682019-11-09T14:07:34.019-08:002019-11-09T14:07:34.019-08:00GW only care to make money. ethics, morals etc doe...GW only care to make money. ethics, morals etc doesn't come into their equation. other more "realistic" proportion miniatures exist. conversions are still legitimate part of the hobby. real life modern politics has no place in psycho super charged over the top gender politics of the 1980's. which escher, goliaths and such come from and are inspired by. plenty of women play many factions and many aren't female factions. many males do play female factions, because the tropes people are disappointed by- sell. they make money. lack of diversity is only a problem if you cannot convert a miniature. what exists today is more then enough to represent any physique across a number of species/factions. people are quick to place blame while not actually doing any work to remedy any perceived wrong they think was committed. <br /><br />tldr: 80's stereotypes (N17) and modern political sensibilities (your personal feels) isn't compatible. GW did and do what they do to sell plastic. ethics, morals and feelings, do not matter- unfortunately. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-29540825250992173302019-09-06T16:27:18.045-07:002019-09-06T16:27:18.045-07:00I think that women do like aliens and space marine...I think that women do like aliens and space marines and science fiction settings. Just look at the bevy of women authors writing science fiction and speculative fiction. It is not that the subject matter is unappealing. What then is keeping women away from the hobby? Surely they like building and painting things too. I am not saying that objectification is the only thing that is keeping women away, but it has to contribute. <br /><br />Saying that the imagery is keeping ALL women away is from the hobby is an overly strong statement. There are certainly some women who like that imagery. But I think it is a turn off to many. Who would want to enter into a hobby that sees their biological sex presented in a way for teenage straight males to ogle and drool over? Gregory Wierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773235150604731258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-58759005488896188042019-09-06T16:25:10.933-07:002019-09-06T16:25:10.933-07:00If a soldier is fully geared in body armor, it wou...If a soldier is fully geared in body armor, it would be hard to tell their biological sex. If you look at pictures of female soldiers in the US military, it is hard to tell their sex when they are geared up. I don't think that sculptors need to exaggerate certain aspects of female anatomy to make sure people know they have a female model. If you have to go out of your way to say the model is a female, it is suggesting that is not a normal thing. It should be normal (unless you are playing a historical warfare game where combatants were all male).<br /><br />You are right about helmeted Space marines. Some of them could easily be females, as you can’t tell from the armour. If you want to say that, you should.<br /><br />I am not sure how any of this makes me a bigot. Your use of the term here suggests that you are angry about this post. What makes you angry about asking for better representation of women in Warhammer 40,000?<br /><br /><br />Gregory Wierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773235150604731258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-26010391021058266742019-09-06T15:50:30.309-07:002019-09-06T15:50:30.309-07:00It is a topic that bothers and angers a lot of men...It is a topic that bothers and angers a lot of men. I think if someone is going to get angry about me voicing a concern about poor representation, they need to examine why that makes them angry. What is wrong with having female models of many different types, not all the same sexualized form?<br /><br />As for the Sisters of Battle, I am still holding out hope that some of them have a different variant of power armour where the breasts are not accented. But perhaps that is wishful thinking. I was not expecting GW to do much to change their established imagery. When the models are released, we will certainly buy some and write a post about them. So stay tuned.<br /><br />I will have a look at the Anvil Industries Sister-equivalents. Thanks for the heads up.Gregory Wierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04773235150604731258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-31931313417059094662019-09-06T09:03:01.276-07:002019-09-06T09:03:01.276-07:00This is a really thoughtful piece, about a subject...This is a really thoughtful piece, about a subject that bothers a lot of men, and I think you handled it with aplomb. <br /><br />I was really sad to see that, outside the superlative new Repentia sculpts, the new Sisters all appear to be maintaining the heels and perfectly armored breasts look I've despaired of for years. For anyone interested, Anvil Industries is producing outstanding women in miniature, both guard-equivalent styles, and their soon to be released Kickstarter Daughters of the Burning Rose, Sister-equivalents. Great sculpts, I think you all, in particular, would dig them.Michael Fitzgeraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06895954475847495137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-55870833507271933122019-05-21T18:50:16.420-07:002019-05-21T18:50:16.420-07:00Well my Black friends say stop thinking you speak ...Well my Black friends say stop thinking you speak for them.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13233524603851793857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-15085572752984731372019-04-18T02:48:34.851-07:002019-04-18T02:48:34.851-07:00sorry to burst your bubble but im holding an esche...sorry to burst your bubble but im holding an escher model in my hand right now, and i can confirm that the breasts are not bigger than the head of the model ( although i guess its possible it may appear as so if a photo was take from certain angles) Also, im a woman and i've been in love with gw and their sculpts for years. and those aren't sports bra's my dude, their bullet proof jackets. As you stated in your article, these models are supposed to capture 80's punk fashion, not 2019 PC "if shes not over 200 ib and ugly as fuck then shes not a good representation of woman, bleh bleh bleh". another thing you gotta consider as well is GW's target demographic: teenage boys :P Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10712509716623224990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-91319035531760528642018-09-17T07:24:34.517-07:002018-09-17T07:24:34.517-07:00Seems to me that if the models were reasonably arm...Seems to me that if the models were reasonably armored with no boob-plate you wouldn't be able to tell they were female. Then they'd complain about the lack of representation...<br /><br />After all my Space Marine army is 51% female and an appropriate percent representation of every minority and inter-sectional trait imaginable, a perfectly balanced and equitable cross-section of a utopian society.<br /><br />Oh you can't tell because they all have helmets on and huge power armor? Maybe don't be so quick to judge inanimate plastic miniatures by their outward appearances.<br /><br />bigotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-1131731949704656882018-09-05T22:43:39.560-07:002018-09-05T22:43:39.560-07:00old post i know, but this whining about models hav...old post i know, but this whining about models having boobs and small waists is so retarded. THERE IS NO GANG OF FEMALES SAYING BOY ID LOVE TO PLAY WARGAMES IF ONLY THERE WERE MODELS PRETTY ENOUGH FOR ME BUT THAT ALSO DIDNT OBJECTIFY WOMEN. these women dont exist guys. Of the few female gamers we have, what like 5% of them even give a shit? You're fighting a fight for people who dont exist. Besides, isn't assuming that women arent playing this game because there is no pretty female army for them to play kinda stereotyping women? What, women can't get behind aliens, or space marines? They need pretty glitter and unicorns right? Surly the wargaming scene will explode with women if only we add a my little poney army and flatten out all the boobs on the models...... Its absurd, the whole argument is a waste of time. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-69612916606513251252018-04-17T06:54:17.602-07:002018-04-17T06:54:17.602-07:00@ Eric. Well my point was that the men where objec...@ Eric. Well my point was that the men where objectified not sexualised. As I explained in my post. Women get objectified and turned into sex objects. Men get objectified and turned into utility objects. The fact that you then start about female being rountinely sexualised means you missed the point.<br /><br />@Aletheia no, it's more a don't be a hypocritical. Either objectification is bad and should be fought in any form it exists. Or it isn't bad. But applying different only minding it when it affects a certain population is bullshit. For instance there was an article in the newspapers in my country about female suicide victims increasing. After going over the numbers it appeared that they increased at the same rate as male victims and the amount of male victims was still 3x higher. So What gives?<br />Same with this. Is it okay to objectify females into sex objects? No. Is it okay to objectify males into utility objects... well the answer should be the same.LucianTheLighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02527821181090500963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-10280081658986885202018-04-15T16:12:00.762-07:002018-04-15T16:12:00.762-07:00Not sure if anyone is still responding because thi...Not sure if anyone is still responding because this is article is about a month old, but I guess I'll go ahead with it anyway.<br /><br />Not a gigantic fan of the Mad Max aesthetic. The typical wasteland bandit look never resonated with me. That being said, I acknowledge that a great deal of people do get something out of the insane and feral BDSM enthusiast look, and that probably has something to do with members of the faction being overtly sexualized and exaggerated to comic effect. From what I have been able to tell from viewing this trope in most media is that the best (and only) way to achieve this aesthetic is to objectify the characters based on their sex and level of insanity. The Mad Max look is inherently objectifying, and good on it for doing so. The world would be a lesser place without it (the aesthetic not the objectification). If GW wants to create a Mad Max themed army of crazy, sexy, psychos, they would probably want to exaggerate the insanity and sexual nature of that army, as that is the core of the aesthetic in the first place. It's impractical as all get out but it's faithful to the spirit of the aesthetic and true to the lore, and the lore clearly doesn't give a fuck about anybodies sensibilities, which is part of the reason why I love the universe so much.<br /><br />Good story writers realize that aesthetic is just as important to narrative (in a visual medium) as lore. If you want to view a microcosm of this in action, check out the halo legends collection. Each is animated and based around a different design aesthetic that has a (somewhat) unique effect on each short. Granted, none of them are trying to make me feel uncomfortable sexually, but if that was the artists intent then he or she damn well better make the bulges disproportionately huge and the busts disproportionately bigger, because that would be mission accomplished in making me uncomfortable right there (Think of the master of this kind of art, H.R. Giger. Everything he does is objectifying purposefully and thats why he's famous). I'm almost certain that the Mad Max films would have done this if they had been animated.<br /><br />Now, after that spiel, it would be hypocritical of me not to point out that the lore and aesthetic for the sisters of silence (probably) does not benefit from having big pointy tits on their breasts plates, as the theme for them is one of solemness and servitude (like the Custodes). The jury is still out on the Sororitas for me though, as I am not sure how much of the Bayoneta vibe the designers were trying to emulate with that one. I like using Blizzards approach for Tracers posing in promotional material as an example for these things. Fans pointed out that Tracers posing was needlessly sexual in a way that added nothing to her character, Blizzard agreed and changed it to be something that was slightly less sexual (but still sexual(think WW2 Pin-Up Girl)) but way more conducive to her character, and stupid people on the Internet cried that SJW culture was ruining gaming. What Blizzard did was trim some needless fat from her character design and direct it into something that fell in line with her character and built upon her personality. That is essentially what I see being done right about the Escher models and wrong with the Silent Sisters models.<br /><br />If anybody is still responding to this post, I'd be more than happy to have a discussion (or an argument, I like debates) about this. <br /><br />TLDR: Women are an inferior sub-species to their penis counterparts, Bush did the Jews, and Hitler did 9/11. <br /> Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741944618356356673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901426566557963132.post-64227188399772706882018-03-28T07:20:22.370-07:002018-03-28T07:20:22.370-07:00HURRY AND LOCK ME AWAY BEFORE MY DANGEROUS LADY ID...HURRY AND LOCK ME AWAY BEFORE MY DANGEROUS LADY IDEAS CHANGE YOUR DOLLS! <br /><br />Even THAT isn't safe enough - better cut my brain, too!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12895519236943757760noreply@blogger.com